[HobbyOGParticipant]

 bleacherreport.com/articles/2838852-knicks-2019-nba-draft-rumors-ny-considering-trading-3rd-pick-hawks-in-mix

I like this move for Atlanta. But I’m not sure who the Knicks take for 8 and 10 in this draft..What do you guys think. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

Sekou 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

This one does not even come close to passing the sniff test. 

Let’s say for one second that the Knicks are operating under the assumption that Kevin Durant is locked in and that they have their pick of another max-level guy (and obviously the Knicks have never been known to be wrong about their standing with free agents). I am even one who looked at R.J. Barrett’s play late in close games where he kept the ball out of Zion’s hands and wonder if that bodes well for how he would play with a max free agent or two. This would be the dumbest answer to that problem. Honestly, why trade back when trading out would give them more certainty with the player? Wouldn’t dangling the #3 pick with the bad contract of Frank Ntilikina in front of Miami for Josh Richardson make a ton more sense?

[Arc12345Participant]

I was a huge RJ Barrett fan as he was coming up the ranks. When he took down the USA squad with an exemplary performance and won gold at the 2017 U19 World Cup, I was pretty sold.

HOWEVER, I think RJ has lost some of his luster and appeal. He had a good year at Duke (great by most standards), but I expected more. Specifically I expected his shooting to improve and it didn’t progress how I envisioned.

He’s a great slasher and penetrator, and I think he can be great, but I’m not sure he’s worth trading up for. This is my problem with the Hawks: last year Luka fell to us and many pegged him number 1 (and should’ve been number 1). That is a draft where it is WORTH trading up (where there’s serious debate about who should be the number 1 pick.

Now they want to move up in a draft where there is such a steep drop off from Zion to everyone else? I’m not one of those people that see a better option than Barrett at 3, but is he worth trading up for? I don’t think so. 

Give me some combination of Reddish, White, Bol, Langford, and maybe even Herro. Unless you can trade to number 1, this isn’t a draft I think you trade up in.

[celtics1982Participant]

 Does it matter who the top guy is if your not trading up to get him? Like there wouldn’t have been a debate last year if Zion was in the draft, he’s that good. 

Do you buy tier systems? Chad Ford say whatever you want about him, but his draft tier system was money. I’d taking Zion tier one, Morant and Barrett tier two’s and tier three is kinda hard to peg this year how big it is. Yet I bet a few teams have Barrett #1 and thats not crazy at all. Reminds me of Tatum, really good year but still got knocked down because his shooting wasn’t that good and people expected more. How did that workout? Barrett is a special talent. If I was a Hawks fan I would love that trade. He’s the type of guy that’s perfect for that team filled with shooters.

[Arc12345Participant]

I do think Zion would go number 1 in last years draft, but I think there would be some debate still. I seriously doubt he has a better year than Luka (had one of the best rookie years of all time).  

I appreciate Ford’s tier system, but I think it’s a gross oversimplification. He also had Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz as tier 1 and Donovan Mitchell as tier 3.

Please don’t compare RJ Barrett and Jayson Tatum’s shooting. RJ shot 66% from the free throw line, Tatum shot 85%. Free throw shooting is one of the best predictors of the type of shooter you’ll be in the NBA.

And again, for a team that has preached about being Golden State light, RJ is an interesting fit.

[Arc12345Participant]

Even if this trade does end up happening, based on what’s been said here they don’t even want RJ Barrett.

They want Jarrett Culver which would be a massive mistake in my eyes. 

[celtics1982Participant]

 There would be no debate, Zion would easily be #1. Luka racked up numbers, on a 30 plus percentage usage rate, but I wouldn’t call that one of the best rookie years ever. Your whole point seems to be your upset at a trade your team made that you didn’t like.

No team or rankings had Mitchell higher than tier 3, so what’s your point? There was no debate that Mitchell should have been a top 3 pick. What tier systems suck because everyone can miss on a certain player?

One year and Barrett does things like play making that Tatum can’t come close to doing. They aren’t the same player. Yet I wouldn’t sleep on Barrett for a second. While that FT comment might be true, the correlation isn’t close to what you think it is.

I like Culver, but would tend to agree I don’t make that trade for him. The upside is there, he’s just riskier.

You keep bringing up Golden State, but that team had Barnes for years. You act like it was 100% lights out shooters. They have AI who’s always been more slasher than shooter. Now Durant, I just don’t get your take.

[Arc12345Participant]

I don’t really think the usage rate takes away from what Luka accomplished. Lebron had basically the same usage rate (28.3 vs. 30.5) during his rookie year and Luka’s numbers were more impressive. It was without a doubt one of the best rookie years ever.

I’m not saying tier systems are garbage. I’m saying you can find an equally great player or better player at the bottom of the lottery if you nail the pick (especially in this draft). Considering we have two picks, I think we could get a very underrated player and maybe two if we pick the right guys.

We will have to agree to disagree about the FT shooting correlation. If Barrett turns into anywhere near the shooter that Tatum is, I will gladly eat my words.

Sure, every team needs a combination of slashers and shooters, but I’m not sure I want to trade up to the 3rd pick in the draft for one. I wouldn’t be totally upset about Barrett, but I would about Culver. I think it’s better to keep your assetts and attempt to nail two draft picks.

 

 

[celtics1982Participant]

 Currently looking at a list that ranks him 10th. He was a raw player in so many ways his rookie season, couldn’t yet shoot.  Yet I’d still take him over Luka because of his D, nevermind Luka had a lot more talent. So If your point is top 15 top 20 type year okay. Yet you make it sound like he’s top 3 or top 5, not even close.

Tier systems rate players based on the overall prospect. Barrett has a much better chance of being an all-star than anyone at 8 and 10. Heck he’s got a better chance than both players combined. Now sure you could hit on two players, what are those chances? It really depends who’s there, but they are all a lot riskier. What’s your team need depth, like two good starters or a star player? All talk anyway, I don’t see the Knicks even doing that.

Look at Jaylen Brown, worse numbers in College, still not a good FT shooter, yet over 35% for his career from deep in three years. Other end Marcus Smart, always a good FT shooter, only one year in five seasons over 35% and crazy bad for his career. If Barrett is Tatum shooting wise,he might be a true Superstar player. He only needs to be Brown to be an all-star.

How many times do teams nail more than one pick? I’m a Celtic fan and we’ve had a ton of drafts lately with multiple picks. Danny is rather good at drafting, yet seems to suck with multiple picks.  You gamble more and the results aren’t good. So like you I dream on getting two good players out of three picks. Yet the chances just aren’t that good, even in this draft.  I’d trade all three picks for Barrett in two seconds. Lots of upside guys, but so many are Soo risky and picking the right few isn’t easy and then there’s your solid guys like Clarke, Washington, and NAW. Heck just saw a mock had you guys taking Thybulle at 10. Maybe the best defender in the draft, save pick, yet limited upside.

[Arc12345Participant]

Lebron still can’t shoot. I’ll take Luka’s rookie year over Lebron’s. I mentioned Lebron’s rookie season for reference because it was probably the greatest in the modern era (post 2000). That makes Luka’s one of the greatest of all time.

 I still wouldn’t call Brown a good shooter. He shot 39% from  3 for 2017-2018 and has been 34% his rookie year and this year. He shot the ball well one year. And again, is still a really bad free throw shooter (65% in 3 seasons with very consistent averages). If that’s what we’d be getting, I’ll definitely pass.

I think the one good thing about this draft is since there’s such a steep drop, you really draft who you think is the best player vs. following a tier system and almost being pressured to pick a guy based off of value. Clearly we see RJ in different ways. You think he’ll be an all star and perhaps even superstar. I think he’ll be closer to Jaylen Brown – who might be an all star as well but isn’t franchise changing in my opinion.

[celtics1982Participant]

 You seemed confused about guys not being able to shoot. Like Simmons can’t shoot and it really hurts him. LeBron is basically a career 35% from deep guy, if that’s your idea of not being able to shoot wow. You get Young was well below that right and so was Collins, this shooting team you claim to have can’t shoot lol. A guy that can shoot 35% from deep is considered an average shooter at worst. You’ll never build a team full of guys shooting 40% from deep, those guys are crazy rare. Take Barrett’s elite driving and make him at worst an average shooter and he’s likely an all-star.

Your bigger issue is Young frankly!

[Arc12345Participant]

That’s my point about Young – for someone who’s supposed to be a shooter, he was a chucker a lot of the time. It’s no secret I’m not a Trae Young fan.

I’m not basing shooting solely on 3 point percentage like you are. Free throw shooting is extremely valuable, and Lebron still can’t make them.

[celtics1982Participant]

 73.6% for his career is your idea of can’t make FTs? The guy plays SF and PF, he’s not a guard. It’s like if a player isn’t a great shooter you say he can’t shoot. Which is crazy. Looking at the whole package, the shots LeBron takes, the guys a good shooter and I’m not even a huge fan. Just gotta respect his talent. As a Celtics fan I’ve seen my far share of LeBron in the playoffs and shooting was never an issue. Team play was. The one thing he struggled with was when and how to be a scorer and PG. When he gets that combo right there is no more dominant player I’ve seen in my lifetime, though I’m in my 30s.

The funny thing is Barrett is like a LeBron lite. He can run the show, he’s that type of passer and playmaker at SF. Which if you watch The Warriors is huge, you need a bunch of passers and playmakers. It’s how your shooters get open shots. Like a Barrett and Culver is the same type of guy he can pass and make plays, will really help Young in the way James helped Irving.

[Arc12345Participant]

I think you’re a little overhyping Lebron but I digress. I’m in my late 20’s, and I’ve probably watched all the same games you have. Lebron has missed some big free throws – he  also shot particularly poorly this year from the line.

Lebron lite might be a bit of a stretch for Barrett. Regardless, we’ll see what happens. I think he could become a great player, but he will have to put in serious work on his jumper to be at the elite level.

[MopgrassParticipant]

Unless you’re getting an Anthony Davis-type, you draft and keep Zion, Morant, Barrett and they go 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I’m not buying anything else. If the Lakers aren’t landing AD or Beal, then THEY should trade down to 8 and 10 with the Hawks and hope Cam Redish or Bol Bol is still out there (probably not). The difference between the 4th and 8th pick is nothing (to me). Then you just get the 10th pick too. So, if Atlanta just wants a specific guy, go for it. Give LA two rookies: just to piss LeBron off. 

[kobyzParticipant]

#3(RJ) could interest Pelicans in a potential AD trade, so this trade hurting their chance getting AD, i don’t believe this rumor…

[BallerScriptParticipant]

Rumor has it that the Hawks have Jarrett Culver #2 on their big board so if they trade up to #3, they’d likely select him over R.J. That allows R.J. To fall to the Lakers and be apart of an Anthony Davis trade package.

1. NOLA – Zion Williamson
2. MEM – Ja Morant
3. ATL (via NYK) – Jarrett Culver
4. NOLA (via LAL) – R.J. Barrett
5. CLE – DeAndre Hunter
6. PHX – Darius Garland

I’ve heard a few whispers of a Chicago-Los Angeles-New Orleans trade revolving Anthony Davis is likely with the Lonzo for the 7th pick being a possibility.

7. LAL (via CHI) – Coby White

With New York now sitting at 8 & 10, I imagine they’ll target Cam Reddish due to their apparent interest in him which has been previously released and target a high energy guy like Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson or even consider trading down or out.

8. NYK (via ATL) – Can Reddish
9. WAS – Jaxson Hayes
10. NYK (via DAL) – Clarke/Johnson/trade

[Arc12345Participant]

If this happens I would be beyond disappointed. Do you know the Hawks rumored big board? Would really appreciate you sharing if you do.

Hawks = prime example of overthinking picks instead of taking the best available talent. Good lord. 

[The GoatParticipant]

This would only be in play if New York is sure it has Durant. You could not turn down a potential star player in their situation after your recent work with the #8 pick has landed you Ntilikina.
Atlanta would have to be very very sure on who they want. I can’t believe it’s Culver. After drafting Huerter and being happy with him, sure you take the BPA but you wouldn’t necessarily target a rookie 2G when those two picks could get you almost any 2G in the league. It’d be an odd move. They could go close to getting Beal for a package based on those.

[properbreaksParticipant]

 I’d be pleasantly surpised if this deal was available. It’s no way if you are the Hawks you don’t do it. People forget overall how talented a player RJ Barrett is because they focus so much on Zion and him playing with Zion. He averaged around 21, 7 rebounds and 4 assists. How often do you see that!!! 

  The media and people just go crazy focusing on one thing until they sound ridicolous talking about another thing. Some rated him in the middle of the season as the best prospect since Lebron and then a month later I’m hearing scouting reports of him saying that he is athletically challenged??? Yeah, if you only compared him to just his teammate Zion. lol 

  He’s a great athlete and has a number of tools. It’s a no brainer if the opportunity presents itself. As for the Hawks picking Culver over Barrett if they got the chance, I just can’t see it. They are on totally different levels to me.

  

  

[Arc12345Participant]

This is far from a no brainer for the Hawks.

For a team that values shooting and preaches on being Golden State light, RJ would be an interesting fit. I think you help your team more by nailing the 8th and 10th pick vs. the 3rd pick. Especially in this draft.

[KHAM83Participant]

 We’re not trying to mimic GS. The last few complaints you’ve made sounds like someone who’s repeating the same ridiculous nonsense he, or she, hears in the media.

[Arc12345Participant]

Not sure if you know that Atlanta’s current GM is former Golden State assistant and front office executive Travis Schlenck who was a large part of constructing their team.

If you think it’s a coincidence that people compared Trae Young to Steph, Kevin Huerter to Klay, and Omari Spellman to Draymond and the Hawks drafted them all, then you’re an idiot. It’s clear what they’re trying to do.

[220Participant]

 That would be a surprising move for the Knicks unless they believe the talent from 3-10 is basically equal. 

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

 a Knicks move lol, kidding aside I think if they want the 8 and 10th pick from the hawks, well who are they targeting hmmm

[MkadozaParticipant]

As the article states, "According to Givony and Schmitz, the Knicks are toying with the idea of moving back "to acquire pieces that better complement potential high-volume All-Star free agents." "

This is more like a Celtics move. If you dont think you have a franchise changer at 3, move back for assets. I could see them targeting a versitile, upside wing like Reddish, Rui, or Little, then looking at BPA or most talented, like NAW or White if he somehow fell to 8. With Zion and Ja out of the picture, I would have no issue with this approach. 

[HitsterParticipant]

 The trade from a picks value perspective looks fairly good and maybe the Knicks think they would be better with two complimentary players at 8 and 10 to pair with any FA guys they may sign. Or we don’t know who they might be looking to target via a trade, that player they may not want to give up 3rd pick for but with 10th and 8th. They can use one in a trade and keep one or even flip both picks in packages for a couple of guys.

If the Hawks are big on Culver then to give up both picks to try and get him at 3rd might seem a bit too much to give up IMO.

The draft order always moves around and whilst I think that Zion, Morant and RJ would currently be my top 3 picks in that order. There is a good chance that someone else could move into the top 3 possibly at RJ’s expense. I think Zion is a lock to go first and I don’t see Morant falling out of top 3 but someone else could easily move in. Look at in 2007 when Brandan Wright was no 3 on a lot of mocks but fell to no 8 on draft night. I don’t expect RJ to fall to No 8 but he could easily drop to say 4 to 6.

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 Personally outside of Zion(even he isn’t guaranteed IMO)this draft is very average and alot of the top picks including JA and Cam reddish are having surgery/injury issues..Which makes me think nothing outside of number 1 is a lock..

Things I could see happening:

Memphis brings in Barret,Ja,The guy lakers brought in for first public work out and maybe 1 or 2 other players..As who knows if the Grizzlies keep Conley or draft best needed available talent(so Sg,SF,C ) to go with Jarren and Mike with Ja sliding in the mix if Mike is moved…

As for the Knicks pick:

I could see them trading back for 3 reasons:

Lower salary hit due to picks being lower

More depth gained on cheaper more contrallable contracts to go with 2 or 3 max slots. Say K.D and Kyrie as possible moves..

The players wanted are going to go lower in their opinion e.g Cam going lower due to having core surgery and possibly missing first season due to rehab/precaution not likely but sort of like a michael porter draft move..

The head scratcher is this though why would the Hawks do this?

They don’t really need a SG Hueter is solid/could be a Klay type player..

PG is Traes to lose.

PF is Collins and that is locked up as they are high on him

Leaving only Sf or C spot up for grabs..Is there a C or SF that people would say that would be worth the 3 pick?

If they are trading up for Barret would probably be under the premise he is your 6th man as he wouldn’t be a good fit with Trae for long periods, as he is a streaky shooter and defensively I’m not sure if that would be a great backcourt.Meaning you would want him to spell Trae/run your 2nd unit or to play limited minutes with Trae to spell Hueter..

[Arc12345Participant]

100% agree with you. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Regardless as to whether you want to give credence to #3 for #8 and #10, if Atlanta is trying to protect a starting spot for Kevin Huerter, then they aren’t trying to win. 

Also, #8 and #10 slot in for more than #3 next year. 

Cam Reddish having surgery is far less troubling than his freshman season.

 

[Arc12345Participant]

Huerter was great this year. I see a bright future for him. The funny thing is if we had the 2nd pick, people would have no problem protecting Trae and saying we need to pass on Ja Morant.

Regardless, I agree with you. They don’t need to draft for need, they just need to pick the best talent available. I think who will be available at 8 and 10 will be better than going all the way up to 3.

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I’d keep an eye on Huerter for the future. He may not be a starter on a playoff team but he can really shoot is an underrated athlete and also showed signs as a do it all 2 way player that can gaurd multiple positions. Developing him should be a top priority.

However Atlanta has so many holes in their longterm roster that despite who’s available they should go best player available every time.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Developing a player and protecting him from having competition for a starting spot or minutes is not the same thing. 

[Author]

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