[sniperParticipant]

I’ve always thought Chauncey was extremely underrated. He’s a five-time all-star, a finals MVP and most impressively, led his teams to 7 straight conference finals, including winning one title and coming super-close to a second. So I decided to look up his advanced stats on basketball-reference.com. Here’s where he ranked in win shares — among all players and among point guards — during those 7 straight conference-final seasons.

2002-03: 17th overall, 4th among PGs
2003-04: 8th overall, 2nd among PGs
2004-05: 6th overall, 1st among PGs
2005-06: 3rd overall, 1st among PGs
2006-07: 8th overall, 2nd among PGs
2007-08: 5th overall, 2nd among PGs
2008-09: 12th overall, 2nd among PGs

Now look at *playoff* win shares during those same seasons. Playoff win shares can be outliers because it’s a small sample size and the further your team goes, the more win shares you potentially earn, but still:

2002-03: 17th overall, 3rd among PGs
2003-04: 2nd overall, 1st among PGs
2004-05: 1st overall, 1st among PGs
2005-06: 3rd overall, 1st among PGs
2006-07: 4th overall, 1st among PGs
2007-08: 10th overall, 3rd among PGs
2008-09: 5th overall, 1st among PGS

Kidd, Nash, Parker, CP3 did not rank as consistently high during this stretch. And none of them regularly elevated their games in the playoffs the way Billups did. Billups was the best player on two finals teams. Kidd, Nash, Parker and CP3 combined have been the best player on one finals team (Parker in 2013).

Conclusion: Billups was the greatest PG of his generation and should have been a first-ballot HOFer.

[sniperParticipant]

I made a mistake in the above post: obviously Kidd was the best player on 2 NBA finals teams.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Point guards used to have to sacrifice their games to manage the pace of the game and get their teammates involved. That motion offence Detroit used to run had set plays every time down the court it was not a “stats” friendly. It would be interesting to see what would’ve happened if more PG’s got the green light like Allen Iverson did.

[sniperParticipant]

Good point. I thought Parker could have been a Iverson-type scorer in his prime, if he’d played on a mediocre team. CP3 and Nash had the skills to be 25ppg scorers, but they didn’t approach the game that way. Kidd & Billups were different, they didn’t have Parker’s quickness or Nash’s shooting touch, they impacted the game in every area (scoring, playmaking, defense).

[BKGingerSnapParticipant]

Chauncey Billups was a great player and I would vote for Billups as a first ballot Hall of Fame. That said he was not the best point guard of his generation. Billups benefited tremendously playing the majority of his prime in the East where as CP3 and Steve Nash had Spurs and Lakers among others in the west. Additionally, playing with Richard Hamilton, a perfect complimentary piece who provided tough defense, could fit into any offense, and could play the entire game off the ball if needed perfectly complimented Billups’ game. Add in Tayshaun, Ben Wallace, and a few years of Rasheed and you are going to get a great team leading to a great career. However, as we saw early in his career, Chauncey was never going to be a guy who could lead a team without a great team around him. Boston, Toronto, Denver, and Minnesota all gave up or moved on him before he settled in with the Pistons, and he had two years to make it work with KG and it never gelled. I think its pretty hard to say that CP3 or J-Kidd wouldn’t have had just as much success on those pistons teams. There is a chance Steve Nash wouldn’t had fit in well with 2000’s pistons but I would still take Nash over Billups. I would take Billups over Tony Parker, Steve Francis, Gilbert Arenas, D-Will, Marbury, Devin Harris, Mo Williams. I consider Iverson a 2-guard.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

I agree with you that Billups does tend to get overlooked somewhat and he should be a Hall of Famer in my opinion (although I’m not sure he quite fits the criteria for first ballot nomination). He was solid on both ends of the ball, made 5 All-Star teams, has a Finals MVP, and had a reputation for hitting clutch shots. He was also all-defensive 2nd team twice, and made 3 All-NBA teams in his career (3rd twice, 2nd once). Clearly one of the best point guards of his generation.

However, I think you are kind of overrating him a bit here. I’ve never been huge of advanced stats and I’m not sure exactly how “win shares” are calculated. But there is no way I would put him ahead of guys like Chris Paul, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. Those guys reached superstar levels and were consistently challenging for MVP awards in their primes. They proved to be capable of carrying a team as the undisputed leader and best player. Billups was very good for sure but never reached the elite superstar level that those guys did. Even in his absolute prime, he was never really the undisputed best player on any of the teams he played on. If I had to make a comparable historical reference for billups it would probably be someone like Dennis Johnson, who never really reached elite individual status in the league, but is a Hall of Famer nonetheless for his overall contributions.

Was billups a better and more well-rounded player than Tony Parker? I think you could easily make that argument. Parker’s career probably looks better on paper and he probably has a leg up on him in Hall of Fame discussions. But you have to wonder how much of that is due to circumstance.

[HitsterParticipant]

Always respected him hugely as a player. Interesting despite being a top 3 pick he bounced around several teams and was almost considered a bust before getting some continuity with the T-Wolves and then shining with Detroit. Also he had to wait a couple of years after winning the title to get an All Star nod. It shows how loaded the NBA PG roster was then.

I think he is HOF worthy but may take a bit of time to go in as there are other locks in front of him.

[armchairgmParticipant]

To me Chauncey is not a HOFer. He played 17 years in the league and only was an All Star 5 year (less than 1/3 of his career), All NBA (only 3 times and never 1st team), All Defense (only 2 times and never 1st team). He was one of the top 15 or so players in the league for about a 5 year stretch, he was a good player but this is not the Hall of Good.

[umassgrad20052005Participant]

He rates 43rd in win shares, which is kinda the cutoff. 39 and up are all HOF players or will be 100%. Then you get to Vince Carter and Shawn Marion, Vince is a maybe, Marion isn’t a HOF in my book. Now things like winning a ton or being on historically great teams can get guys with less stats in like Dennis Johnson. Yet for me, it’s can the guy carry a bad team to wins. That isn’t Billups, he can’t take bad Celtics teams with almost nobody and make Eastern Conference Finals. The Pistons were really good for a long time, yet only one title. 2-3 I think you can make the case he’s a HOF 100%. Yet as of now it’s kinda maybe. More like a really good player who played on a team that won a lot of games, yet not enough. I just can’t overlook the years and years he wasn’t that good, even with HOF guys like KG for years. Peak was too short and he just wasn’t that dominant.

[Author]

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